You're a Bunch of Factors

I apologise if this has been dicsused in the past


Im about 3/4 the way through this years Premier leauge poker series, and i have to say of all 12 players phil helmuth was the most disapointing


granted devilfish wasnt far behind


Im just interested in the general opinion out there,

this bloke rates himself as the best NLH player about, but even tony g looks double the player he is.

vent your opinions on the most over rated player in RECENT history here,
and im looking for debates on the defense of him as well


so have at it

krunchie wrote:vent your opinions on the most over rated player in RECENT history here,
and im looking for debates on the defense of him as well

How many WSOP bracelets?

No need for a defense council. You tell us why you believe him over-rated.

Scott wrote:

krunchie wrote:vent your opinions on the most over rated player in RECENT history here,
and im looking for debates on the defense of him as well

How many WSOP bracelets?

No need for a defense council. You tell us why you believe him over-rated.

Ok i was expecting that argument

and dont get me wrong i belive him to be a all time great.

But i am talking recent history as highlighted in my post.

Last years blow up in the WSOP final added to a few other performances as well as the premier leauge 2009 performance leads me to belive he is strugling with the new breed of poker player.

as I said i am looking for both sides of the argument here, so dont put it back on me, tell me you thoughts

It is not whether he is a has been, or not.

People now understand his game plan a lot better. The famous Phil Hellmuth Blow up, is pretty much him trying to reason out why a person played the way they did.

He is a skilled holdem player in the live arena, but he struggles online. Also think being the best player out of 100, is a lot different to being the top player out of 1000. Even if he is top 10% there is still a lot of daylight between a cash and a pretty good cash.

As for overrated players, there are a lot out there. Antonio Esfandiari, Phil Laak, Jennifer Tilly, Gavin Smith, Joe Sebok, are the popular young ones that everybody knows. But they are more focused on TV exposure vs the game.

Underrated players. There are heaps of online pro's that are underrated. Mainly due to the fact is that they play a lot of games and minimise their variance by their volume. To them playing one live game for 8 days unless they cash for over 30k it is wasted time.

This is all tournament games as well.

For cash games, the kettle is huge. Antonius, Benyamine, Hansen, Ferguson, Tom "Durrrr" Dwan. They play to make the most out of their edges. Where in tournaments making the most out of an edge can still bust you out, and you won't catch up.

Brett.

Recent, as in one year? Too small a scale imo. There is no question that Hellmuth is an excellent NLHE player, one of the best alive. No way in hell he's anything near a has been. He could never do anything notable again and still go down as one of the greatest.

He was an dis a very very very good NLHE player, no question. I think it's more his attitude and mouth that make people not want to believe that.

I have just watched the whole season of Premier League Poker. He makes some great moves, worthy of his status. Again, the talk sometimes lets him down.

Devilfish was pretty unlucky in the League, as he has been for a couple now. Probably suffers from the same arrogance as Hellmuth at time, albeit mumbling.

Dwan really played the series like no one else did. Good or bad, it was a lot different. And successful too.

Is Phil Hellmuth a has been no way.

But I think he puts too much effort into the showbiz side of his persona, rather than evolving his game, unfortunatly the showman, the mouth allows players get under his skin and a blow up often effects his game and effects his results.

But then again poker is in a state of transision, the old guard is making way for the new breed of young players who lack personality, players like Phil Hellmuth and Lark, Gus Hansen, Scotty Nguyen and a host of others actually make you want to watch poker.

I suppose my favorite to watch is Daneil Negreanu.

gundog wrote:Is Phil Hellmuth a has been no way.

But I think he puts too much effort into the showbiz side of his persona, rather than evolving his game, unfortunatly the showman, the mouth allows players get under his skin and a blow up often effects his game and effects his results.

Phil knows exactly what he's doing. He uses the Brat image quite well - often to his own advantage.

I love some of Phils antics but he's lost the respect from some of the younger and non American players because of his attitude towards them.

"They did it to me again Honey!!!! I raised three times the pot on the flop with the best hand and this internet idiot goes ALLIN with 3 8 suited?

"These non thinking European idiots think it's only a game but it's my living they're playing with. Don't they know who I am"????

I'd be VERY surprised if he wasn't quite deliberately trying to gain an advantage by blowing up like that.

I used that tactic a lot myself when playing basketball. Get in their ear and tell them just how bad they are and watch them melt into some kind of jelly limbed unco. You do actually need to be able to play a bit yourself though!

Australian cricket team also springs to mind (although maybe not now) as having successfully used that tactic. How many times you hear other teams complaining about the sledging? The reason they complained is because it was working.

There's no way he's a has-been.