You're a Bunch of Factors

This question is raised because, again, differing rules at different venues, and of experienced players.

When a player acts out of turn, people tell them that they must copy the player before:

ie UTG checks, Player 3 calls "Bet $500" when Player 2 hasn't played yet.... He checks and people say to Player 3 "You must check also".

But....
Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Action out of turn may be binding and will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call, or fold is not considered action changing.

So, if Player 2 has not changed the actions (check), then the $500 bet is binding. But if Player 2 bet $150, then the action has changed, and therefore no longer bound to play the $500.

Clarification? I get that players make mistakes on raising out of turn, but it can be used as a deliberate ploy to get people out of the hand.

But it does change the hand.

Lets say UTG bets $100

Next two players call the $100

The next player hasn't acted yet and YOU raise the bet to $500...

The player who didn't act has an advantage over the previous players in knowing what you're going to do... and gets out.

David wrote:But it does change the hand.

Lets say UTG bets $100

Next two players call the $100

The next player hasn't acted yet and YOU raise the bet to $500...

The player who didn't act has an advantage over the previous players in knowing what you're going to do... and gets out.

But a call, check or fold is not considered action changing. And you've proved my point. A player can fake a raise to push people out, and as such should be held to making the raise.

A player faking a raise is exactly why they are forced to also check.

The player who's turn it should have been isn't going to fold when they can check for free knowing they're not getting raised by the player who faked the raise. Would be completely daft to just fold.

What's even better is if the player who's turn it should have been actually has the nuts then now they maybe have a chance to grab some more chips.

Bacon wrote:Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Action out of turn may be binding and will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call, or fold is not considered action changing.

Is this the rule that the NPL employs?

Forcing player B to check (if this is the action player A subsequently takes), is often what player B wants, if his initial out of turn bet was indeed an angle shoot. Angle shooting like this on the flop when he has a drawing hand can effectively let him see a turn and river without having to outlay any chips. As per the example, player B fires an oversized bet out of turn. Player A then checks, knowing player B has to follow suit. Once the turn is dealt, regardless of hole cards (let's assume player A HASN'T got the nuts), player A is often more inclined to check, as player B now has the opportunity to bet as he supposedly wanted to on the flop. If player B is still drawing, he can check behind, to see a free river, or even throw out a legitimate position bet to take it down there and then.

This is a tactic used more in limit than no-limit, but in the right situations it can be done.

Bacon wrote: Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Action out of turn may be binding and will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call, or fold is not considered action changing.

If this was copy/pasted from the NPL website it may or may not be what they actually follow....remember the NPL website is a national website and those listed rules are NSW cash game rules.

This is of course another very good reason why Garth and a few others have said they are going to sit down and draw us all up a set of rules in the very near future.

As it stands at the moment, if you play out of turn (you're a clown ) and you are obliged to check if the player who's turn it actually was decides that checking is what they want to do. I'm fairly sure that if they decide to bet then it's back on like donkey kong.


So yeah, there are a few grey areas that are probably not being followed the same at all the venues (like completing the raise pre or post flop after an allin) so the sooner the super duper official set of rules comes out the better.

I've been trying to write a set of rules, taken from the main set of rules used in major tournament, but its damn hard.

And the fact I'm trying to do this while at work makes it hard.

Hopefully can have it done by Season 3. Need to sit down with Garth at some point and go through it all.

Think the rules stated on the website, are for cash games in NSW so that there is an official set for the Gaming commission to look at in case any impropriety occurs.

Addressing the Acting out of turn situations. A lot of the time it is binding in Casino's and games where there is money involved (not freerolls with attached prizes).

A lot of people also, play freeroll poker for a bit of fun, but also to develop an idea of the rules. Who has ever bet out of turn online? Who has exposed a card whilst dealing online? Who has string betted online also?

Its a lot of these little mistakes that people are finding out what they have to do before they go to the casino.

So a lot of the time in pub poker leagues, The action is taken back, and the player has to follow the previous action.

However this can be abused and used as an angle shoot. But once again, if people need to do that at a free poker game, it says a lot about their character.

Cheers,
Brett.

Brett Kay wrote:
However this can be abused and used as an angle shoot. But once again, if people need to do that at a free poker game, it says a lot about their character.

Cheers,
Brett.

Yes!!! About time someone said it. I totally agree.

i do use this some time to c a cheap card. but i play 90% of the time, like i am playing with my own money and the rules in NPL allow me to play out of turn to scare people.

any ways in saying this i have stoped this as i have found people don't like this and it is not the correct thing to do. i wanna play by the rules to make my self the best player i can be.