Another rule clarification, please...

[bennymacca]

people not following etiquette is really annoying, one of my pet hates really. i have been told on numerous occasions that supposedly i take it too seriously because i tell people these rules. i suppose i was just trying to find a middle ground without seeming like a tool myself.

[BigPete33]

There's definitely a mindset in some people that it just doesn't matter, and they're the ones likely to have a cry no matter how nice you are about it.

They also tend to be drunk and lacking morals to begin with, and aren't even slightly concerned about how their actions affect those around them who are also there to try and have a good time.

[Bob B]

ok, i think ill concede this one.

There you go benny the cunt, this conversation isn't any different to what we are actually talking about.

You were adament that some flexability wouldn't hurt and we were just as adament to say it would. So, we turn to the rules to get the correct answer.

I personally try to help new players to help them feel a little more relaxed and offer them advise as the night goes on. Hell one guy at Parafield Gdns never played any sort of cards in his whole life.

I gave him a what beats what and some open handed games b4 the start and again on the first break. I also made sure he was on my table and explained I couldn't tell him what to play but gave him some help quietly after a hand had finished.

He was as nervous as can be but thanked me later in the night for making him feel welcome. In turn that made me feel a little better too and he actually came back the following week.

[krunchie]

My local ( waikerie club ), has had steadily declining numbers for a while now, we used to average in high 30s but now we are averaging mid to high 20s.

In an attempt to help the club board improve its numbers
(remember that we a small town with a small base to pull from)
ive started talking to players that dont play all the time or a few that used to come but dont any more ( not playing any where else because we dont have that luxury)

one of the themes that has developed is that a few players belive the serious players ( my self inlcuded ) are too serious or over baring because we uphold the rules and dont allow for a fun atmosphere.
Now while i dissagree that we ruin the atmosphere ( waikerie is a very fun place to play) i kind of get what some of these players are saying that they just want to play and not be so serious about it ( not that i agree ).

the point of this post is thus

the club is nearing that profit point of numbers where it is thinking its not paying for its self, so we need all the players we can get.
How can we have a serious game for the serious players upholding the rules and the integrity of the game but still attract the casual gamers that just want fun and not the hassle, because without them we may not have a game at all soon.

[bennymacca]

i agree with you krunchie, but what those people realise is that the place is also fun once they learn all the rules. those rules are there for a reason, and they don't detract from the overall game, the problem is in telling them about the rules, as sometimes they don't want to learn.

i doubt there is an easy answer to this

[Bacon]

What's the bet these are the same people who yell at the umpire in footy, cos he's called a free wrong??

Get out the Monopoly board, and just start randomly putting hotels on your spots. If they don't like it, tell 'em you are just having fun.

Drink their drinks... you are just having fun.

[krunchie]

i agree with you krunchie, but what those people realise is that the place is also fun once they learn all the rules. those rules are there for a reason, and they don't detract from the overall game, the problem is in telling them about the rules, as sometimes they don't want to learn.

i doubt there is an easy answer to this

yep

i dont like being the bloke that stands by the rules all the time but i am a umpire in hockey and in poker i have made an effort to learn the rules ( somewhat) so why cant everyone

but i dont want to loose our venue either

[Garth Kay]

There really isn't an easy answer to any of the scenarios you all provide.

I am of the firm belief that you only need to teach players a certain rule once and it sticks with them. It helps to explain why the rule is in place in a polite manner though. In the end the only people who should be enforcing rules and explaining them to players are TC's. Other players will have a tendency to listen to a Tournament Captain rather than a fellow player, it's just the way it is.

In saying that as senior and veteran players we greatly appreciate all of the work and education you do in providing more information to novice players. So please keep it up. But if you feel that your comments are falling on deaf ears or isn't appreciated, please call a TC over.

Now to the OP:

As the player is first to act, post flop, and has not verbally declared his bet size the chip stands as the total bet.

If the player was last to act and preceeding players had placed a bet amount then the oversize chip without a verbal declaration is simply a call.

In 99% of cases players can never retract their cards from the muck. Once those cards hit the muck they stay in the muck. The only time they can be retrieved is at showdown when a clear indication was made to display the hand and the cards remain easily identifiable from the muck or in the case when collusion is probable the TC can remove the concerned hand from the muck and view them personally to confirm whether collusion has taken place.

[gundog]

Well said Krunchie.

Common rule infractions are muck raking, rabbitting and folding out of turn, muck raking is my biggest concern because it can give information to astue players still in the hand, the other 2 I can live with.

Muck racking can be controlled somewhat particually when its your turn to deal, by prior to dealing the flop you sweep the muck cards to a side stack, and then during the hand sweep other mucked cards as they are mucked.

How do you strike that happy balance satisifying the serious player, those there just to play poker for the fun of it and the venue's intrests, venues with a small player base to draw from can ill afford to alienate any player, the loss of 5 or 6 can kill a venue.

Allow the TC the flexiility to keep the players comming back and us that know the rules assist the TC teaching the rules without becoming Rule Nazie's

[BigPete33]

Get out the Monopoly board, and just start randomly putting hotels on your spots. If they don't like it, tell 'em you are just having fun.

Drink their drinks... you are just having fun.

Don't tempt me