Dream Team Race - Kleemann Under Attack

[Scotty]

The online component was only introduced this season. It seems to me like ALOT of people now have the mindset that this is all the 888pl is about. If all people want to do is play online for free, but with no big points scoring games to disadvantage themselves, and begrudgingly play away games (if at all), but STILL want huge money on offer for scoreboards, semi-finals and grand finals ... well, I find that bemusing.

[AceLosesKing]

lol...

888pl are a business. They need players in the pubs (not just for money, to introduce them to poker, create a love for poker). It is because of the away/in venue elements that the online component was introduced.

[Garth Kay]

The online component was only introduced this season. It seems to me like ALOT of people now have the mindset that this is all the 888pl is about. If all people want to do is play online for free, but with no big points scoring games to disadvantage themselves, and begrudgingly play away games (if at all), but STILL want huge money on offer for scoreboards, semi-finals and grand finals ... well, I find that bemusing.

+1

Don't have time to respond at this time, but need to add my agreement to this thought.

[Garth Kay]

lol...

888pl are a business. They need players in the pubs (not just for money, to introduce them to poker, create a love for poker). It is because of the away/in venue elements that the online component was introduced.

And AK has this dead to rights.

We do not grow our market if we are not introducing people to poker at the grass roots (social) level.

[trishan]

The online component was only introduced this season. It seems to me like ALOT of people now have the mindset that this is all the 888pl is about. If all people want to do is play online for free, but with no big points scoring games to disadvantage themselves, and begrudgingly play away games (if at all), but STILL want huge money on offer for scoreboards, semi-finals and grand finals ... well, I find that bemusing.

I'd be very interested to see 888PL's or FHG's mission statement because as far as I am aware this is a free poker league. The business revolves around this free poker league. You put prizes on offer to attract players to this free poker league and then try monetize these free games. But they are free.

The business model for away games is that you offer a free poker game and hope that the money spent at the venue makes it profitable for both the hosts and the league. You offer passports as an incentive for people to spend money but they are under no obligation to do so.

Likewise you offer free online games and you monetize this by getting a sponsorship deal with 888. You hope that people deposit money and play cash games which makes it profitable for both 888 and in turn the league.

The key here is this a free poker league first and foremost. You seem to suggest that players should support the league by going to away games and spending money, but there is no obligation on players to do so.

Just because the 888PL's business model is based around in-venue spending does not mean that players who wish to play for free should not expect large prizepools.

[BionicMike]

I agree with you guys, the Dream Team Leaderboard is not a true measure of the best players in the league. It is a measure of competent players with the most flexible schedules who played a heavy volume of freerolls online this season.

That said, it is what it is and those who figured out the system (ie the Grand Final Qualifiers that have 50 % of field sitting out are where the points are at) and capitalised will be rewarded. I also believe having said that, that there is an element of skill to playing fields like this.

I am looking forward to seeing the revised scoring system for next season. My humble suggestion would be increasing the point value of Away games(presuming this is where 888pl are making money and attracting new players). I would also suggest restricting the sign up times for the online freerolls to 1 hour before the game. You will never completely eradicate the carefree(read psycho - crazy - don't give a stuff) players or players that simply don't play but you will minimise them.

I also think a weighting system for the buy in value of the tournament would better reflect quality of players. Winning a 30 player $5 touney should be worth as much if not more points than a 150 player freeroll.

[Des]

So just because I'm a rich bugger and luckboxed a tourney means I'm a better poker player? No way should it ever be based on the buyin!

[muzzington]

Stop whinin'.

[Des]

The only way ppl will stop whinging is have set amount of point regardless of runners.

Then you'll get complaints for when people win a 10 person tourney.

No one will be happy.

Lets cancel it all and not have all these tourneys and prizes and meeting Warney.

[Garth Kay]

I'd be very interested to see 888PL's or FHG's mission statement because as far as I am aware this is a free poker league. The business revolves around this free poker league. You put prizes on offer to attract players to this free poker league and then try monetize these free games. But they are free.

Where do we say anywhere that we are a free poker league? We offer numerous events, both online and in venue, which are either free to play or have an entry fee component. NPL was a free league simply because we exclusively ran free to play poker.

The business model for away games is that you offer a free poker game and hope that the money spent at the venue makes it profitable for both the hosts and the league. You offer passports as an incentive for people to spend money but they are under no obligation to do so.

Completely incorrect, we do not receive income based on the spend of players in venue. We derive income from charging venues a flat fee, per head fee or a mix of both irrespective of the player's venue spend.

We offer passports as an incentive for players to be rewarded for their spend at venue level or to increase the spend by players.We do this so venues see an increased revenue stream from hosting our products.

Likewise you offer free online games and you monetize this by getting a sponsorship deal with 888. You hope that people deposit money and play cash games which makes it profitable for both 888 and in turn the league.

We offer a mix of online games, both free and buy in. You will also notice that the majority of games we offer have a buy in component but the biggest attractor by far is the freeroll environment.

We do not have a sponsorship deal with 888, it is a partnership. We derive no net income from the online component of our league. We actually derive zero income from conducting our online freeroll; but we continue to offer tournament prizes, added prize pools and tournament entries to this side of the competition simply because we are aware that the majority of our players are not comfortable playing for real money online, at this stage.

The freeroll environment is a way for players (especially regional) to have access to a greater amount of games with larger fields than they would normally experience.

And I could go on further about the poker player lifecycle, but needless to say many players evolve from the freeroll pub market into online real money players, we (as a company) have decided to create a league that caters to the entire evolutionary process of the poker player by introducing them to the general steps in moving through the life cycle.

The key here is this a free poker league first and foremost. You seem to suggest that players should support the league by going to away games and spending money, but there is no obligation on players to do so.

Just because the 888PL's business model is based around in-venue spending does not mean that players who wish to play for free should not expect large prizepools.

The key here is that we are a poker league with full integration of online and offline components with players that range in skill from novice to advanced and a huge varying demographic that we try to cater too.

As a business we will always incentivise players to the avenues that will generate the most income. As such the large prize pools will always be awarded to those who participate in those avenues.

Players who wish to play for free can expect any sort of prize pool they wish, whether or not it is forthcoming is entirely a business decision.

As a manager involved in this poker organisation I look out for the best interests of my players the majority of the time; but we are not a charity. We are a business with several different products and brands and we have stakeholders to answer to and objectives to meet, all of which many players will never fully comprehend.

In the end player feedback is always appreciated but at some point you have to accept the fact that we will never satisfy 100% of the player base and you only have to experience what our competitors offer to fully appreciate everything we do provide and the fact that we do listen to players and evolve as their needs and demands do as well.

There will always be a small minority of players that find everything we do unsatisfactory, or find areas to complain about. No matter how we calculated the Dream Team score board or what qualification methods used, I would still be here right now answering to players criticisms and constructive feedback.